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is an award-winning weekly science show

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in french hosted by a bunch of crazy

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enthusiasts

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we are convinced that the greatest ideas

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in science are quite easy to grasp as

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long as they're presented with passion

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using a vocabulary common to all curious

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minds whatever their academic background

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if any

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never too late

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all our stories have a written

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transcript on the website and people

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from all around the world are using our

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content to learn malia's language

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electromagnetism to the science of

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introverts

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we just love mathematics science

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critical thinking so do you want to join

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also find us on itunes and soundcloud

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see you soon hopefully at

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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bonjour for the

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15th of november 2015 richard saunders

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here with you from sydney australia

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and i don't need to tell you why i

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played the promo there for our

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colleagues in france of course the whole

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world's thinking of

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the events in paris over the last 48

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hours

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and we should also be remembering the

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events in beirut and other parts of the

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world where similar atrocities

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occur

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what's the answer

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well

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i don't know

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but i do know

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that we must continue our

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course of

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reason

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these problems will one day be confined

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to the history books i'm sure but it's

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going to take a long time and

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the way we're going to get that page in

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the history book is if we pursue

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slowly and carefully the course of

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reason and it's also a sobering thought

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to think that uh

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quite possibly

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some of the people who died in the uh

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recent events

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especially in uh

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in france could well have been skeptics

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own listeners but quite frankly i think

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i'm really lost for words so we'll

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continue on and we'll look at to see

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what's coming up on this week's episode

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of the skeptic zone we're going to kick

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off with heidi robertson the raw skeptic

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report heidi is going to be giving us an

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update

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bringing us up to date

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with the report by the senate committee

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into no jab no pay

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if you remember last week's episode and

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if you've stopped laughing from the

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antics of those

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wacky crazy zany outrageous people on

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the anti-vaccination front what's that

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expression they only open their mouth to

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change feet

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well heidi is going to be telling us

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what the senate concluded and its

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recommendations on this matter and thank

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you heidi for all your hard work on this

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subject following that it's a weakened

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signs from the royal institution of

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australia hello paul willis my old

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friend dr paul willis now he's a man and

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that's an organization that certainly

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believe in reason science and reason

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then after that it's maynard's spooky

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action maynard went to skeptics in the

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pub here in sydney and bumps into none

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other

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then

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dr richie dr rachel dunlop who is in

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sydney at the moment doing some research

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she's been uh quite a jet setter lately

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so we'll find out how rich he's going

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and also maynard's going to be chatting

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to various people about the topic of the

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evening

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which was

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the uh legalization of medical marijuana

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medical cannabis what an interesting

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topic that is

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what do skeptics in the pub pub

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type people think about this topic find

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out a bit later on

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with maynard then to round off the show

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it's joe alabaster evidence please and

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joe's going to be telling us about a

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recent award given to dr edsard ernst

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one of our colleagues in the uk and that

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report will come to you courtesy of

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australian skeptics on the australian

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www.skeptics.com.eu well worth a visit

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well that's enough for me right now i'm

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going to run downstairs and

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that does sound good why not and i think

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i think i really should while i'm doing

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it's the raw skeptic report

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hi everyone

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heidi robertson coming to you from my

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noisy with wildlife home here in the

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northern rivers of new south wales

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this is an update on the latest news

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surrounding the senate hearing into the

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no jab no pay legislation

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you may recall that on the 2nd of

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november the northern river's

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vaccination supporters

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along with stop the abn and friends of

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science in medicine were asked to appear

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in front of a senate committee to give

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testimony regarding the legislation

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also giving testimony amongst many

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others were anti-vaccination advocates

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including two former presidents of the

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australian vaccination skeptics network

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merrill dorey and greg beatty

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as well as naturopath brett smith

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and debbie kemp a child care operator

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last week richard played some audio of

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them speaking over each other

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refusing to answer questions

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calling the senators mouthpieces for

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rupert murdoch and generally behaving in

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a manner that didn't seem to do them any

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favors

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on tuesday november the 11th the senate

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committee recommended the passing of the

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social services legislation amendment no

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jab no pay bill

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in this recommendation they specifically

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cited testimony given by stop the avn

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the northern river's vaccination

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supporters and friends of science in

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medicine it was fantastic to read this

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as we now know that they not only

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listened

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they actively took note of the points we

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raised and formed their decision and

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further recommendations around this

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also interestingly

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the recommendation mentioned the amount

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of form letters or standardized letters

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that were submitted to them by vaccine

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refuses

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one type of form letter was submitted by

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703 people whilst another type was

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submitted by 52 people

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these form letters were obviously not as

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effective as those people sending them

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in had been led to believe by certain

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anti-vaccination groups

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the recommendations made as part of this

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report are all supported by us the

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northern rivers vaccination supporters

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except perhaps for one

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made by senator dina tarly that the

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legislation actually be delayed until

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january the 1st 2018

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in order to allow immunization data

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systems to be improved we would hope

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that the legislation is not delayed for

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this amount of time

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so key aspects of the recommendations by

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the committee were as follows

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recommendation one

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the committee recommends that the

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government consider an initial review

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after 12 months to assess the immediate

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impact of the bill and a full evaluation

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of the impact and effectiveness of the

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bill after three years of implementation

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recommendation two

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the committee recommends that the

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government consider the educational and

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communication strategies

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to improve vaccination rates proposed by

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submitters to this inquiry

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recommendation 3

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the committee recommends that the

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government investigate a means of

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continuing to monitor conscientious

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objection if the bill is passed

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recommendation 4

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the committee encourages the government

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to investigate the merits of a national

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vaccine compensation scheme

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recommendation 5

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the committee recommends that the bill

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be passed

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so the next sitting of the house of

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representatives and the senate is

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scheduled for the 23rd of november and

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we expect to hear more then

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this is heidi robertson signing off for

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now

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for more information on vaccination and

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vaccine preventable diseases

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and give us some love in the way of a

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like on facebook

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thank you

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welcome to a week in science from rios

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bringing you the science you need to

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know it was one small step for an animal

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one giant leap for the animal kingdom

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but just how did the first vertebrates

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walk onto land and breathe air for the

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first time it's time to take a closer

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two recent papers reveal key insights

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into how the first vertebrates walked

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onto land and took their first breath

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the mechanism that determines whether

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you have fish fins or walking limbs is

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the rate at which a couple of hox genes

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are expressed hox genes are like

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orchestra conductors they regulate how a

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whole suite of other genes perform and

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changing its rate of expression can

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radically alter how an organism develops

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we learnt more about limb building when

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developmental embryologists switch the

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hox genes from a fish to a mouse

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the fish hox gene could not produce

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fingers and toes in mice thus the

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genetic apparatus required to make

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fingers and toes must have evolved after

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and we also now know how breathing

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developed for the first time and guess

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what we almost ended up breathing

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through our ears a team studied live

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polyterrain fish from africa

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these fish have a simple lung but no

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windpipe the team found that 93 of the

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air getting into the lung came through

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holes in the tops of the head called

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spiracles being surrounded by bone these

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structures are usually found in fossils

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of advanced fish and primitive walking

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vertebrates the tetrapods

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so now we can track how this early

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breathing mechanism developed in more

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advanced tetrapods like us the

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sphericals ended up becoming our ears

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and now four fast facts about walking on

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while the standard body plan for

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tetrapods includes five fingers and toes

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at the ends of each limb

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some of the earliest land walkers had

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eight digits in recent years several

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fossil finds have completed the picture

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of every conceivable intermediate stage

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between advanced fish and the first land

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walking vertebrates the queensland

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lungfish while not an immediate ancestor

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to land walking vertebrates provides a

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clear picture of how air breathing

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evolved in fish before they walked onto

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the land

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and in case you're wondering queensland

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lungfish are supposed to taste like a

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very oily salmon and they're covered in

285
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,720
a thick sticky mucus i know that because

286
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,480
i had to throw my shirt away after

287
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:50,800
handling one of them that's it for this

288
00:12:57,069 --> 00:12:53,040
week in science for more information on

289
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,079
walking on land go to the rio's website

290
00:13:03,269 --> 00:12:59,760
riaus.org.edu follow us on twitter at

291
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:03,279
rios and like us on facebook i'm paul

292
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:16,710
want to help support the skeptic zone

293
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:18,959
and look pretty damn stylish while

294
00:13:24,509 --> 00:13:22,079
you're about it visit mr cat's origami

295
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:24,519
jewelry go to

296
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:26,800
www.skepticzone.tv and click the link or

297
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:30,000
simply google mr cat's origami jewelry

298
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:32,000
also on facebook

299
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,880
pendants earrings and cufflinks

300
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:36,720
support mr cat

301
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:52,150
here's maynard's spooky action

302
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,230
we're here at skeptics at the pub and

303
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:00,320
there's a controversial chat going on

304
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,560
tonight it's going to be about

305
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,720
decriminalization of cannabis insofar as

306
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,800
being able to use for medical purposes

307
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,320
and can you let us know kind of what

308
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,079
we're going to be talking about tonight

309
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,639
yes i think our speaker who's involved

310
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,560
in the area is going to be

311
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:16,800
talking about the minefield

312
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:18,240
that

313
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:22,000
it comes to

314
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,279
um

315
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:25,680
allowing the medicinal use of cannabis

316
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:26,480
for

317
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:29,120
long-term illnesses like um

318
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:31,839
cancer epilepsy

319
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:32,639
and

320
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:35,199
other very very nasty illnesses

321
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:36,959
i think it's fairly

322
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:39,519
well established that cannabis can be of

323
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:40,800
use

324
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:43,680
and i think the question is just how

325
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:46,800
how to uh harness that in a in a safe

326
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,360
and reliable and legal way and does the

327
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:51,600
legislation have to change

328
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:53,120
do you think there's a bit of woo around

329
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,560
cannabis like there is around some of

330
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,760
these things just speaking to some

331
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:57,279
people you'd think it was an actual

332
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:59,040
miracle drug people like give the idea

333
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:01,199
that it doesn't only have relief from

334
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:02,560
the symptoms of cancer it can actually

335
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:04,000
cure it you hear all sorts of things

336
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,320
about it oh i've heard that too yes and

337
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:09,120
yeah and i know somebody who had cancer

338
00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:11,519
has unfortunately died but they were

339
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:14,320
very much into the cannabis oil supposed

340
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:16,639
cure and i think um

341
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,160
yes i think there's a lot of woo

342
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:19,920
attached to it

343
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,399
simply because it's it's um it's you

344
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:25,360
know that kind of drug really but

345
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:26,480
that's not what we're going to be

346
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:27,600
talking tonight we're going to be

347
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:30,000
talking about legitimate medical uses

348
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:33,839
with a clinically proven effect

349
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,959
yes because there are too many people

350
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,399
that want to jump on the bandwagon

351
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,800
aren't there oh yes i think they uh they

352
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:40,560
definitely want to jump on the bandwagon

353
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:44,160
and perhaps exploit this uh exploit this

354
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:46,720
um but having said that um i understand

355
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,360
that that our speaker tonight um

356
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:51,040
is um

357
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,800
is going also going to be talking about

358
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,199
the the commercial potential of this

359
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:57,680
industry and it i understand does it

360
00:16:02,870 --> 00:15:59,279
does have a huge commercial potential

361
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:02,880
domestically also you know for export so

362
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,360
you know why stymie that if it can be

363
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:08,240
done safely and legitimately what do you

364
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,199
think uh

365
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:11,360
we're talking about medicinal marijuana

366
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:12,959
here this evening and there are

367
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,399
legitimate uses of that but do you think

368
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:16,320
people get a bit too uh they get a bit

369
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,480
too effusive about the possible benefits

370
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,240
of cannabis sometimes

371
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:23,120
well they're the only ones to know

372
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,279
so who are we to know who we who are not

373
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:27,839
in chronic pain that's true that's true

374
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:30,800
i suffer from migraines actually and

375
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:33,279
i have never found a suitable medication

376
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:34,240
that will

377
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,160
make a migraine at least bearable to

378
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,120
stop me thinking of suicide yes i i know

379
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:41,199
you have to stay inside for like is it

380
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:44,399
more than one day you can go on for

381
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:46,320
well one day and the day to recover can

382
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:47,600
be so

383
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,240
so if there's medicinal marijuana

384
00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:52,399
available i'd probably be oh okay i'm

385
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,320
not trying it but i wouldn't i've got no

386
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:56,320
intention of trying it otherwise

387
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:58,560
and do you think um if they should uh

388
00:17:02,069 --> 00:17:00,160
hone the active ingredient down into a

389
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,079
tablet or just let people be able to

390
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:04,559
pipe it up if they feel like it

391
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,720
oh look i don't know it's so complicated

392
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:08,720
yeah what's what's going to

393
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:10,799
stop it being criminalized as the main

394
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:11,760
thing

395
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:14,880
because how do you separate the two yeah

396
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,799
i don't have the answer there because

397
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:18,319
there is a lot of people that think that

398
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,829
well hemp rope certainly enabled people

399
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,919
to sail around the world

400
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,600
200 years ago

401
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:29,039
and of course i've also got someone here

402
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:32,240
what's your views on the on the subject

403
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,880
um i'm quite neutral on it um

404
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:36,960
i've i've only tried um

405
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,080
cannabis once when i was very young

406
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:42,080
do you think it should be investigated

407
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:43,520
further do you think the claim is a

408
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,039
little bit exaggerated

409
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,960
probably exaggerated

410
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:49,520
although not not completely um

411
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:51,840
useless i mean it would it would it

412
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:54,080
would be there with aspirin and

413
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:55,360
some other

414
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,160
other popular drugs

415
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:00,240
so well and you're just going to wait to

416
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:04,480
see what to said tonight i think so yes

417
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:05,760
now tim benjamin because you're a man

418
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,679
who went to a university in the 70s and

419
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:09,440
you saw a few things i did see a few

420
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,640
things i'd rather not talk about them

421
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,919
actually

422
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,520
so what do you think of the the claims

423
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:15,520
behind a medicinal use of cannabis at

424
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,960
the moment in new south wales uh

425
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,320
medicinal i think it's a bit limited

426
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:20,240
actually

427
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,600
although speaking to some people they go

428
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:22,880
a little bit too far with their claims

429
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:26,240
sometimes don't they i think well

430
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:29,520
excuse me any claims about marijuana um

431
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:31,200
that are sort of you mean contract they

432
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:32,480
mean they're lying about how effective

433
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:33,440
they are

434
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,720
sometimes the the range of things that

435
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:38,880
can treat is sometimes expanded beyond

436
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,960
yeah probably probably i mean

437
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:43,440
it obviously doesn't treat brain damage

438
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:46,240
it rather creates a brain damage i

439
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:49,039
believe i can't remember actually

440
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:49,840
so

441
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:51,760
was it prevalent amongst the university

442
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,120
when you were there or not or was it

443
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:55,200
just sort of a secret underground thing

444
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,559
nah it wasn't secret at all actually

445
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,799
there was an excellent little music room

446
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:03,120
down below one of the sydney uni um

447
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:05,039
the union theater

448
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:06,880
used to go and play music there they

449
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:09,200
listen to music okay and no one could

450
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:10,720
see in

451
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:12,559
i mean literally you couldn't see him he

452
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,880
was just smokey and with the authorities

453
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,440
sort of turning a blind eye or they just

454
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:19,200
weren't they didn't weren't up to it

455
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:20,559
well because the police aren't allowed

456
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,270
but it was the case then i mean they had

457
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:29,440
to be invited on by the vice chancellor

458
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:30,320
or something so they couldn't just

459
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:32,559
wander on and do a random search they

460
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:34,000
were a security guard by the university

461
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:35,120
but i think they ignored it they didn't

462
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:36,559
care okay so you're going to be

463
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:37,919
certainly interested in the talk tonight

464
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:40,240
absolutely interested i have a lot of

465
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:41,679
medical conditions which i'd like to

466
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:47,669
oh there's a lot of excitement has gone

467
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,600
through the crown hotel here at skeptics

468
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,360
in the pub as dr richie has walked in

469
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:53,120
and most people realize that that she

470
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,320
owes the money so there's a bit of a

471
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:57,200
fuffle going on doctor

472
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,789
hey look and look and look like i said

473
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,240
there's a lot of people that dr reggio's

474
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:06,320
money too so it's pretty wild that she's

475
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,000
shown her face at sydney skeptics in the

476
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,320
pub dr rachie welcome back thank you

477
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,640
maynard it's nice to be back no i

478
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,640
believe you've been in jackson hole

479
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:17,120
um is that a euphemism well i don't know

480
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,320
i don't know what goes on in that place

481
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:19,520
but yeah when you say i'm going to

482
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,799
jackson hole

483
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:23,280
i don't know no it is a place yes i have

484
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:25,919
been there it is in wyoming and it's um

485
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:28,000
a ski village pretty much so at the

486
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,159
moment it is snowing there now i

487
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,679
understand it's a place that has really

488
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,039
rich people and really poor people it's

489
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:35,360
sort of a dual economy going on yeah so

490
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,960
i guess you could describe it as that

491
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,039
because it's um wealthy because it's a

492
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,280
ski resort and then the people that run

493
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,799
the resorts you know the workers the

494
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,480
people that run the cafes and bars and

495
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,200
stuff they're all paid fairly

496
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,960
averagely being that it's american

497
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,320
hospitality

498
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,480
and that's endemic across the country

499
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:54,960
and there's a very um serious housing

500
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:57,039
shortage issue in jackson hole as well

501
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,799
wow okay so

502
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:00,880
rent is very expensive and workers

503
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:03,440
simply can't afford to live in the town

504
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,679
so dr rachel dunlop what have you been

505
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:07,280
up to since last time we spoke to you

506
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:08,640
here you you wouldn't even tell us where

507
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:09,919
you were going probably because you

508
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:12,000
didn't want to say jackson hole

509
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,440
that's right i wouldn't even tell you

510
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:15,520
where i was going yeah yeah

511
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,559
um oh well yeah i mean i've been

512
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:20,400
back and forth to australia a couple of

513
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,679
times i was

514
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:23,280
in jackson for a few months and then i

515
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:24,880
came back here

516
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:28,080
to melbourne went back to jackson

517
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:29,520
came back here

518
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:30,559
and

519
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,640
then my boss decided to send me to

520
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:34,480
sydney to do some work

521
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,679
because we don't have the right

522
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,360
equipment that we need to do this

523
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:40,159
particular project in the usa

524
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,440
but they happen to have it here at

525
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:43,520
macquarie university

526
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:46,320
so i managed to uh wrangle my way back

527
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:48,080
get a treat back to australia to do a

528
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,840
month's worth of work in macquarie

529
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:51,679
university yeah now of course your

530
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:53,760
research is into um

531
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:56,240
motor neuron disease and possible causes

532
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:57,360
of it and

533
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,640
what path are you examining at the

534
00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:00,159
moment and we must stress that this is

535
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:02,400
just merely an initial finding but it

536
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:05,360
probably means that you will cure cancer

537
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:06,720
that's that's what i'm planning to do

538
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:09,840
next week actually yeah yeah no we're um

539
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,200
we've got a drug now that we've been

540
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,280
trialing for a couple of years and we're

541
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,960
going to put it into phase two trials

542
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:16,480
next year can i have some for saturday

543
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:17,280
night

544
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:19,840
uh you can buy it online get out but not

545
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,640
through silk road

546
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:24,720
just through amazon actually

547
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,440
um yeah so we we're doing phase two

548
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:30,000
trials now to see because um when when

549
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,880
drugs go into trials with humans you do

550
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,559
um the first lot which is called phase

551
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:36,080
one and that's just to check if the drug

552
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:37,360
is toxic

553
00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:39,760
and if people can tolerate it so it's a

554
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,520
safety check if you like and that's a

555
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:43,840
small number of patients usually less

556
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,280
than 100

557
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:47,200
and then if that's

558
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,440
successful you go into the next stage

559
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,679
which is called phase two and that's to

560
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:53,440
work out if the drug actually does

561
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:55,440
anything does it slow down the disease

562
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,200
does it cure the disease does it have

563
00:23:02,549 --> 00:22:59,840
any efficacy as as the scientific term

564
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:02,559
goes so that's where we're going next

565
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,480
um and at the moment we're looking for

566
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:06,960
2.5 million bucks to do that so if

567
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:11,200
anybody has a spare 2.5 million bucks

568
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,880
um that would be good we could use that

569
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:14,640
kickstarter

570
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:15,600
maybe

571
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:19,520
actually been discussed kickstarter has

572
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,360
been discussed now you're hoping that

573
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:23,039
this will be abuse against motor neuron

574
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,120
disease now is that across the board so

575
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:27,360
would that be ms as we know it as well

576
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:29,840
or different sorts here what what type

577
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,520
well motor neurone disease as you

578
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:34,000
suggest is an umbrella term for a lot of

579
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,440
different disorders

580
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,760
ms though is not a neurodegenerative

581
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:39,760
disease it's actually an autoimmune

582
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:42,320
disease so that's a different category

583
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,000
but this will apply possibly to

584
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:46,240
parkinson's disease alzheimer's disease

585
00:23:51,029 --> 00:23:48,320
frontal temporal dementia

586
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,039
lewy body dementia which actually was

587
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:53,360
announced today that it's thought that

588
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:56,480
robin williams had frontal uh lewy body

589
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:58,880
dementia actually okay and all those

590
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,799
diseases are termed neurodegenerative

591
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:02,720
diseases so our therapy may help with

592
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,200
any of those possibly

593
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:06,960
has your research also suggested there's

594
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:09,360
something we should avoid doing

595
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:12,960
or eating or being or breathing

596
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,240
yes um i mean specifically we're looking

597
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,720
at a toxin found in blue-green algae

598
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:20,720
and you might say to me well rachel i

599
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,760
don't eat algae so i'm fine but it turns

600
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:25,760
out that this toxin

601
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:27,200
comes from

602
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:28,640
blue-green algae that you find on the

603
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:30,960
surface of lakes and rivers and

604
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:32,720
it can then get into the food chain

605
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,120
through seafood through

606
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:37,760
mussels through the water and if for

607
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,880
example you water crops with um

608
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:42,640
unfiltered water that has the toxin it

609
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,919
can get into things like leafy

610
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,840
vegetables and wheat and rice and that

611
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,080
sort of thing so actually it can be in

612
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:49,679
all kinds of foods

613
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,520
and currently people wouldn't be trying

614
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,960
to necessarily filter it out because

615
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,480
it's not considered a problem is that

616
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:56,159
true or not um no it is considered a

617
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,200
problem

618
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:59,440
but people aren't testing for it because

619
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:01,760
they don't have a test for it yet oh

620
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:03,600
there's not a simple

621
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:07,279
quick cheap way of detecting it um

622
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:08,480
at the moment

623
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:09,200
so

624
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:10,960
the only advice i could give you is to

625
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:12,799
just don't eat stuff that's come from

626
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,679
really um you know green mucky waters

627
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,279
and

628
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:19,120
i mean how can you tell that maynard you

629
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:20,960
may ask me if you just go buy it from

630
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,240
your fishmonger

631
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,640
um well you probably can't so

632
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:25,440
um

633
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,960
i mean there are studies showing that

634
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,720
muscles have high levels of this toxin

635
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:30,559
because they filter water so anything

636
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:32,240
that's a filter feeder like a muscle or

637
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:34,960
a clam um they will filter water and

638
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,200
then whatever was in the water retains

639
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:38,880
back in their flesh so they can have

640
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:41,440
high levels of the toxin

641
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,039
so you think at a bit of a turning point

642
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,960
about this in a few years time we'll be

643
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:46,799
going aha

644
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:49,919
i think that's happening soon um

645
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:53,520
we at one of my collaboration groups we

646
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,520
had a big grant awarded to us just this

647
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:58,080
week which is looking at the

648
00:26:01,830 --> 00:26:00,080
distribution of this toxin in australia

649
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,840
because nobody's demonstrated yet that

650
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:03,919
it's actually here

651
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,120
so that's going to be something we're

652
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:07,120
doing in the next few years and there's

653
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:08,640
a lot of stuff we're working on the us

654
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,360
that i can't talk about for ip reasons

655
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,679
but um that will

656
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:15,840
i think that will accelerate research in

657
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:18,960
this area once these things are done

658
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:20,720
so just for the rest of us and for the

659
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:23,200
listeners of the skeptic zone um

660
00:26:28,149 --> 00:26:24,799
what are the big um

661
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:28,159
the turning points in this investigation

662
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,080
and research you're doing at what points

663
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:31,600
do you go yay i mean what was the last

664
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,960
one where you went yes we've turned a

665
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:35,039
major point here

666
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:36,720
you've reached the junction you know it

667
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,799
was it a slow gradual thing i think i

668
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:40,320
mean i get asked this question quite a

669
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:42,080
lot and i don't

670
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,520
science doesn't really work that way

671
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,360
even though it

672
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,120
as a researcher at the cold face that's

673
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,520
not really how it works but that's how

674
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:51,600
people pitch it to work and that's how

675
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,840
it's marketed to work and that's you

676
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:55,760
know what press releases try to allude

677
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:57,840
to i suppose but

678
00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:59,919
really it is a slow burn and

679
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,520
the stuff that we've been working on for

680
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:03,840
the last three years um

681
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:06,480
we sort of came across by accident

682
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:07,279
so

683
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:09,039
you know people tend to think that

684
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,880
science is like a eureka moment where

685
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,240
you look at something and go oh wow

686
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:14,320
that's amazing i i've got something here

687
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,039
but

688
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:16,799
more often than not that the kind of

689
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,320
discoveries that become important and

690
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:20,480
useful are the ones that you go i don't

691
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:22,159
really understand that that's that's

692
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:23,200
weird

693
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,799
why why is this like that i don't

694
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,880
understand that and dr rachel have you

695
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:28,799
really wanted to punch any journalists

696
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,400
lately that have asked stupid questions

697
00:27:33,190 --> 00:27:31,919
or got the wrong end of the stick and

698
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:33,200
then proceeded to beat about the bush

699
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,080
with it no never and you know but you

700
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:38,640
know why maynard because

701
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,000
because i've learned from people like

702
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,760
yourself and from other journals because

703
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:43,919
i'm not smart

704
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:45,840
no but you're a professional you're a

705
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:48,640
professional journal so i've learned

706
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:50,640
have you spoken with the abc

707
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,200
no no no

708
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:55,520
i haven't been to that part of the hr

709
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:57,679
website um

710
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,559
no but but if you brief journalists

711
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,159
properly and you understand what they

712
00:28:07,269 --> 00:28:04,640
want and you give them short sharp

713
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,279
answers you will usually end up with a

714
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,360
good result um

715
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:11,279
so no i haven't had that recently

716
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:13,039
because i always go into those sort of

717
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,200
situations where i brief them well

718
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:17,520
beforehand i ask for the questions

719
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:20,080
before the interview always asks for the

720
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:21,120
questions

721
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:23,360
i ask what's the context of the report i

722
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,039
ask who else is going to be in the

723
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:27,200
report so i know exactly

724
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,559
i mean and that's particularly important

725
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:30,240
with vaccination stories by the way

726
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:31,520
because

727
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,120
several times i've had to pull out of

728
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:35,200
interviews about vaccination if they've

729
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,799
told me they've got an anti-vaxxer on as

730
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:38,399
well as me because i will not

731
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,799
participate in reports that perpetuate

732
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:42,320
false balance

733
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,559
so i i i've not had that issue with

734
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:46,080
jono's at all and i did an interview

735
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:48,559
this afternoon um via skype for a south

736
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:51,120
african current affairs show and it was

737
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:53,600
done in 20 minutes because i asked for

738
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:55,679
the questions beforehand i was prepared

739
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:59,039
i rattled them off that was it easy

740
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,799
and getting back to the regular sort of

741
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,640
skepticism what sort of woo has kept you

742
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:04,080
up at night telling people they're wrong

743
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:06,080
on the internet

744
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:07,520
well it's funny you should ask me that

745
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:08,799
question i knew there'd be something

746
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:11,279
there's always something well there's

747
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,880
the town where i've been living in in

748
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,120
wyoming jackson hole is very much a

749
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:18,159
woo-woo town get out no it is and and

750
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:19,840
when i first got there there were people

751
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:22,480
asking me if i'd heard of

752
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:24,559
some australian guy who's a famous

753
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:26,799
juicer and i can't even remember his

754
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,360
name now but he made a movie called fat

755
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:31,840
sick and dead or almost dead or

756
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,799
something

757
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:34,399
it's really famous in the states and it

758
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:36,480
was about you know the classic journey

759
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:38,159
of he was really overweight and ill and

760
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:39,679
high blood pressure and so he started

761
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:42,000
juicing and only eating you know

762
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,159
like kale some smoothies and he lost

763
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:46,080
weight and blah blah blah i've lost

764
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:47,679
weight i know you have what have you

765
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:54,310
see that's not that's not a diet that

766
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:57,279
i'd recommend like maybe not but yeah

767
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,799
but you've got to get something out of

768
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:00,799
it that's surprising but it's not like

769
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:02,880
you needed to lose weight

770
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:05,120
to begin with well i'm wearing my 1984

771
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:07,520
suit i just realized that's 31 years ago

772
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:08,720
right so

773
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:10,799
so at least you can fit into your 1984

774
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,240
suit that's right but should you be

775
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:14,480
wearing a suit from 1984 but i think

776
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,960
we're getting off topic here

777
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:18,960
you completely derailed this discussion

778
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,399
didn't you so maybe i could have the

779
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:22,960
getting dumped died maybe you could that

780
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,720
so i just got to encourage people to go

781
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:27,120
out with inappropriate people yeah and

782
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,720
then you can make a movie and it's on

783
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:30,320
netflix i haven't seen it i don't know

784
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,520
how you monetize that because a lot of

785
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,440
people do it on their own time

786
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:35,200
yeah true i mean

787
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:36,960
yeah there's a i mean it's something you

788
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,520
can maybe explore i don't know

789
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:41,520
yeah so this guy's juicing things and

790
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,880
people are going

791
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:44,640
crikey they've been saying he's juicing

792
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,320
stuff and he's australian well it's

793
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,760
funny you should mention crikey because

794
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:49,679
it reminds me of when you know steve

795
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:51,279
irwin was around and he used to be

796
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:54,000
extremely famous in the usa

797
00:30:57,510 --> 00:30:56,000
and i'd never heard of him in australia

798
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:57,520
many people hadn't because he was more

799
00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:59,440
famous there than he was here

800
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:01,600
this guy whose name i can't even recall

801
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:04,159
is the same deal okay very famous for

802
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:07,360
juicing okay so um did they ask you did

803
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:09,200
you know him i guess because everyone

804
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,880
knows everyone in australia i don't

805
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:12,240
think they meant it that way i think

806
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,720
they just meant do you know of him

807
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,399
not necessarily do you know who he is

808
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,000
have you had any local battles with wu

809
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,559
like fluoridation or anything like that

810
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:22,720
um no

811
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,559
no

812
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:27,039
i've had to be very careful about did

813
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:28,159
you live there

814
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,120
i live there um so in fact it's been a

815
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,919
good lesson in how to

816
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,760
deal with these things without being a

817
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,760
dick if you if you like you know how

818
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,440
phil plate did that talk many years ago

819
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:41,039
about don't be a dick and

820
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:42,720
yelling at people is not going to help

821
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:44,960
so you just have to kind of lead them to

822
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:45,760
that

823
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,480
decision themselves and and offer advice

824
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:50,799
without being um you know

825
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:51,679
um

826
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:54,559
what's the word i'm looking for rude or

827
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,760
you know condescending farty or fatty or

828
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:59,200
patronizing

829
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:01,120
and is jackson hole in a state where

830
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,120
marijuana is available for medicinal

831
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:06,080
purposes or not not yet no not yet but

832
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:08,320
colorado is and that's not far away from

833
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:10,799
us and i believe they've done very well

834
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,399
out of that they

835
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,559
made a huge amount of money from the um

836
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,240
you know the taxes they took from that

837
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:18,799
and they've funded all this public stuff

838
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,360
like schools and things so yeah

839
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:23,120
yeah that's cool well

840
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:24,240
what do you think of the battle is going

841
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,840
to be here in new south wales to

842
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,080
possibly get medicinal use of cannabis

843
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:30,080
going in new south wales

844
00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:31,519
well i just think it's a matter of time

845
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,279
isn't it i don't think it's going to be

846
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:35,120
it'll it'll take time but i think it'll

847
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:35,919
happen

848
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,960
it's like well why why muck around and

849
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:40,399
waste people's time let's just deal with

850
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:42,720
it and do it it's ridiculous

851
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:43,840
for many years i thought for the

852
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,679
medicinal use of whipped cream bulbs but

853
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:48,000
i was always unsuccessful

854
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:49,440
were you shelving them though maynard

855
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:51,279
you're not supposed to do that

856
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,950
look uh my head's really spinning now

857
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:58,559
because i've just been watching lots of

858
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:01,039
legal talk about uh

859
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:03,120
legalizing cannabis for medicinal use

860
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,399
and i think i should pass you over to

861
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:05,919
someone who really knows what it is who

862
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:08,559
we got here dr teresa nicoletti i'm a

863
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:11,760
partner at piper alderman and i

864
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,559
practice in intellectual property

865
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:17,279
my specialty is in

866
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:19,360
legal issues in the pharmaceutical and

867
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:22,799
biotech industry we're involved in the

868
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:25,360
legalization of medicinal cannabis and

869
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:28,159
we are constantly engaging with

870
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,159
state and federal governments to try and

871
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,000
get our heads around

872
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:34,720
a a framework that will allow a

873
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,720
medicinal cannabis industry to operate

874
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:38,480
in australia are politicians a bit

875
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:39,760
scared of this do you think there's

876
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:41,519
votes in it or it's a bit of a touchy

877
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:42,880
subject

878
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,440
i think that look i think there is a bit

879
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,240
of controversy around it because of the

880
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,240
historical stigma associated with the

881
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:52,480
use of medicinal cannabis but what it

882
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:56,480
comes back to is that there are genuine

883
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,480
therapeutic benefits for

884
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:00,159
products that are derived from cannabis

885
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,480
and and that's what we should focus on

886
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,159
providing access for medicinal and

887
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:06,080
scientific use and that's entirely

888
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,840
consistent with the convention

889
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:09,520
now you mentioned that there are large

890
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:11,679
overseas corporations that could swoop

891
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,839
in and do this if we uh if we don't get

892
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,280
a move on

893
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:16,879
well yes there is always that

894
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:19,520
possibility but they will also have to

895
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:22,079
operate under the regulatory framework

896
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,679
so if they want to bring in their drugs

897
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:25,520
they have to submit to the same

898
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:28,399
evaluation process that any company

899
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,760
whether it's in australia or overseas

900
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:33,599
has to submit to

901
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:36,000
but there are overseas companies that

902
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:37,280
are bringing in their product for

903
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,240
clinical trial purposes and

904
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,919
there are also australian companies that

905
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:43,679
can provide access to those products for

906
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:44,399
that

907
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:46,079
purpose so i think australia should try

908
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:47,520
and facilitate

909
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,000
companies in australia that can provide

910
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,320
that access and so the listeners

911
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,079
probably wondering well what can i do

912
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:55,760
about it how can i educate myself is

913
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:58,160
there a best place to go to simply find

914
00:35:02,470 --> 00:34:59,760
out what needs to be done or what the

915
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:02,480
average person could have an effect upon

916
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,560
you'll find different information at

917
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:06,480
different sites so you'll find

918
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:08,160
information about the regulation of

919
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,200
drugs regulate generally on the tga's

920
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:12,880
website

921
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,200
there's access to all the legislation

922
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:17,119
but it's a it's a minefield maynard what

923
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,520
can i tell you it's taken me months to

924
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:21,359
actually get my head around it myself

925
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:23,520
and i work in the area and you had a

926
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:25,200
that was beautifully succinctly put

927
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:26,560
there but even then i was spinning

928
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:28,160
because people are talking oh we might

929
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:29,599
probably get this done in six months and

930
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:31,119
as you showed there are certain things

931
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,640
like what happens if something goes

932
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:34,640
wrong who's who's responsible who's

933
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:36,560
going to pay for it those are huge

934
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:38,720
questions yes yes and that's why we need

935
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,200
regulators in place so there is talk

936
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:43,200
about a separate regulator for medicinal

937
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,880
cannabis but we already have a very

938
00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:47,200
strong regulator and that's the tga

939
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:49,839
who already regulate narcotic drugs and

940
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,880
and lower risk drugs and medical devices

941
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:55,200
and so i think we should draw on that

942
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:58,240
existing framework to to make this

943
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,880
access to medicinal cannabis work okay

944
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:02,240
and what is the best way to educate

945
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:05,200
ourselves generally

946
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:07,359
the way we all educate ourselves may not

947
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:10,640
the website but but as i said um i can't

948
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,599
tell you how many uh sources i've seen

949
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:15,839
that that actually have misinformation

950
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,960
out there

951
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:19,119
and just uh just off the top of your

952
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:20,480
head what do you think would be the main

953
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:22,000
use of the medicinal that you said

954
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:23,599
there's many things that look promising

955
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:24,880
what's the one you think in your own

956
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:26,240
mind and we're not going to hold you to

957
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:27,839
it there

958
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:30,079
look the ones i see having the most

959
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:31,599
promise are

960
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,400
for

961
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:34,880
epilepsy

962
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,400
multiple sclerosis has established use

963
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,000
also the reduction of pain and

964
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:42,960
stimulation of appetite so there is um

965
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:45,359
promise in cancer pain

966
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:48,880
uh for thc and cbd products and this is

967
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:50,480
a serious issue do you get a bit sick

968
00:36:53,670 --> 00:36:52,320
some of the people making jokes about

969
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:53,680
the whole thing because you know that

970
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:54,880
they smoked a doobie when they were

971
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,800
younger so they think that that that's

972
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:58,560
all there is to it sometimes

973
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:00,160
well i think that's part of the

974
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:03,119
misinformation out there um it is a

975
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:04,320
valuable

976
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:05,760
uh product

977
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:08,320
you know herb that has a number of

978
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:10,400
important therapeutic agents in there

979
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:12,560
and what people do need to recognize is

980
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:15,520
it's not about smoking weed it's about

981
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:17,440
providing access to an important

982
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:10,230
is

983
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:13,760
president of the hungarian skeptic

984
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,680
society and chairman of the european

985
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,240
council of skeptical organizations

986
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,400
as a listener of the skeptic zone you

987
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:22,240
probably agree that educating others

988
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:23,839
about pseudoscience and critical

989
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,480
thinking is an important task

990
00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:28,240
if you are eager to take part in either

991
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:30,079
of these activities we would be happy to

992
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:31,359
hear from you

993
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:33,440
don't hesitate to contact us at

994
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:37,950
or info at

995
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:40,480
skepticush.edu we also recommend you

996
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:43,520
visiting our facebook page skeptical

997
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:45,839
or simply come and join us at one of our

998
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:02,470
what we wanted some more evidence please

999
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:13,990
hello this is joe alabasta

1000
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:16,470
professor edvard ernst and professor

1001
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:18,800
susan jeb are the two winners of the

1002
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:21,760
2015 john maddox prize for standing up

1003
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:24,079
for science

1004
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:26,400
the prize named after a former editor of

1005
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:28,640
science journal nature is a joint

1006
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:31,680
initiative of nature the cone foundation

1007
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:35,520
and the charity sense about science

1008
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:37,359
ernst is well known for his stance

1009
00:39:41,790 --> 00:39:39,359
against alternative and complementary

1010
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:41,800
medical treatments that lack evidence or

1011
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,359
substantiation

1012
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:45,680
his book trick or treatment alternative

1013
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:48,240
medicine of trial co-authored with simon

1014
00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:51,040
singh is an exposition of a wide range

1015
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:53,200
of alternative treatments assessing

1016
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,160
their efficacy if any

1017
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:58,079
he is also well known for being on the

1018
00:40:01,589 --> 00:40:00,320
receiving end of criticism from sir

1019
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,599
michael peat

1020
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,000
the then principal private secretary of

1021
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:06,240
prince charles who accused him of

1022
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:08,160
breaking a confidentiality agreement

1023
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,839
over the smallwood report on

1024
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,920
complementary medicine

1025
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:13,680
the report had been commissioned by the

1026
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:16,079
prince and suggested that complementary

1027
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:18,160
and alternative medicine was cost

1028
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:20,079
effective and should be available on the

1029
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:23,280
uk national health scheme

1030
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,119
ernst was initially enlisted as a

1031
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:27,599
collaborator on the report but asked for

1032
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:29,839
his name to be removed after a site of

1033
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,599
the draft report convinced him that

1034
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:33,760
smallwood had quote written the

1035
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:35,440
conclusions before looking at the

1036
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,520
evidence end quote

1037
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,680
the report did not address whether cam

1038
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:41,760
treatments were actually effective and

1039
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:44,640
ernest described it as quote complete

1040
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:48,000
misleading rubbish end quote

1041
00:40:51,829 --> 00:40:49,760
at the time he was professor of

1042
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:51,839
complementary medicine at the university

1043
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,240
of exeter the first such academic

1044
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,400
position in the world he was also

1045
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:58,319
director of complementary medicine of

1046
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,319
the university's peninsula medical

1047
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:01,760
school

1048
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:03,359
following the criticism over his

1049
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:05,440
comments on the smallwood report the

1050
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:07,599
university undertook an investigation of

1051
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:08,960
ernst

1052
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:11,200
even though he was cleared of wrongdoing

1053
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:13,119
ernst has said that circumstances

1054
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:15,040
surrounding the ensuing university

1055
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:18,319
investigation led to his retirement

1056
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,680
regarding the maddox prize he was quote

1057
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:23,520
recognised for his long commitment to

1058
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:25,839
applying scientific methodologies in

1059
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:27,440
research into complementary

1060
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:29,520
unalternative medicines and to

1061
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:31,680
communicating this need

1062
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:33,760
professor ernst continued in his work

1063
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:35,920
despite personal attacks and attempts to

1064
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:38,319
undermine his research unit and end his

1065
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,480
employment

1066
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,079
as a result he has addressed a

1067
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:44,160
significant gap in the research base in

1068
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:46,720
this field and has brought insights into

1069
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:48,800
discussions with the public policy

1070
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,079
makers commentators practitioners and

1071
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,200
other researchers end quote

1072
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:58,079
his co-winner susan jeb is professor of

1073
00:42:03,510 --> 00:41:59,920
diet and population health at the

1074
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,520
university of oxford she was quote

1075
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,680
recognised for her promotion of public

1076
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:08,160
understanding of nutrition on a diverse

1077
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:10,960
range of issues of public concern from

1078
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:13,599
food supplements to dieting

1079
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:15,520
professor jeb tackled misconceptions

1080
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:17,680
about sugar in the media and among the

1081
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:20,240
public and endured personal attacks and

1082
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,240
accusations that industry funding

1083
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,480
compromised her integrity and advisory

1084
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,040
capabilities end quote

1085
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:29,119
the winners of the 2015 john maddox

1086
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:31,280
prize were announced on november 3rd

1087
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:34,319
2015 at the sense about science annual

1088
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:36,319
reception in london

1089
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:39,359
the judging panel in 2015 consisted of

1090
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:42,480
tracy brown director sense about science

1091
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:45,520
philip campbell editor-in-chief nature

1092
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:48,640
lord reese of ludlow frs and professor

1093
00:42:54,309 --> 00:42:51,200
colin blakemore frs

1094
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,319
judges sit in a personal capacity

1095
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:56,880
on winning the prize ernst said that

1096
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:59,359
quote there is a lot in alternative

1097
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:01,760
medicine that challenges rationality and

1098
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,960
ethics

1099
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:04,960
standing up for science by refuting the

1100
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,960
plethora of pseudoscience and low

1101
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,880
quality research in this field is

1102
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,280
important to patients and to people who

1103
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,760
practice medicine as well as to everyone

1104
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:15,680
else who talks about it

1105
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,760
to receive the john maddox prize is a

1106
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:19,680
true honor as well as an invaluable

1107
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:26,550
you can read this report and many more

1108
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:44,150
hey heidi

1109
00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:47,920
oh hi joe hi heidi oh hi maynard hi

1110
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:50,960
maynard oh hi joe nice day in this park

1111
00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:55,280
yeah yes great weather oh look a unicorn

1112
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:56,720
a unicorn

1113
00:44:02,069 --> 00:43:58,720
there are no such things as unicorn

1114
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:02,079
silly yes there are no there isn't

1115
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,400
hey ladies what are you arguing about

1116
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:06,640
joe thinks unicorns are real

1117
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:09,440
they so are let's look this up in the

1118
00:44:15,030 --> 00:44:12,880
skeptics dictionary the words how can we

1119
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,040
do that in this park there are no

1120
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,280
computers here you ladies probably don't

1121
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:20,160
know about the skeptics dictionary app

1122
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,040
available now for iphone ipad and ipod

1123
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:25,920
touch in the app store yeah we do we've

1124
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:27,839
been listening to the skeptic zone for

1125
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:31,680
years you know uh um yes okay uh the app

1126
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:34,160
lets you access all the great skeptics

1127
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:36,800
dictionary articles when you're on the

1128
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:40,720
go here let me look up unicorns oh cool

1129
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,359
heidi prepare to be proven wrong

1130
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:45,599
it says here the unicorn is a creature

1131
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,760
from fables ah

1132
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:49,680
actually i see now that someone just

1133
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:51,200
dumped their ice cream cone on that

1134
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,480
horse's head

1135
00:45:08,870 --> 00:44:55,200
thanks get the addiction

1136
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:10,470
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1137
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,359
zone

1138
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,440
thank you to those people who uh helped

1139
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,359
the skeptic zone

1140
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:17,839
by your little payments micropayments

1141
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,400
through paypal at skepticzone.tv hit the

1142
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,319
subscribe button it really does help

1143
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:24,560
there's some more microphones in the

1144
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:26,880
very near future i need to buy

1145
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,560
so your

1146
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,319
chipping into the skeptic zone really

1147
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,880
does help to do that it's it's fantastic

1148
00:45:37,510 --> 00:45:34,640
and thank you to those people who have

1149
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:37,520
been visiting mr cat's online store mr

1150
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,160
cat's handmade origami jewelry the links

1151
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:41,920
at skepticzone.tv

1152
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:44,000
that money also goes to help the skeptic

1153
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:46,720
zone and i'll be having a little stall

1154
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:49,839
for mr cats origami jewelry at the glebe

1155
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,839
markets here in sydney on the 12th of

1156
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:54,000
december if you're there drop by and say

1157
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:56,319
hello coming up on next week's show more

1158
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:57,920
interviews from the australian skeptics

1159
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:59,200
national convention

1160
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:00,960
maynard running around with his

1161
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:02,319
microphone

1162
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:04,800
uh getting some really top interviews so

1163
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,400
more of that coming up i hope you

1164
00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:07,920
enjoyed the interview so far from

1165
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:11,119
maynard with eugenie scott and

1166
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,680
joe nickel amongst others but for this

1167
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:15,839
week this is richard saunders signing

1168
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:16,880
off

1169
00:46:29,309 --> 00:46:25,430
you've been listening to the skeptic

1170
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:29,319
zone podcast visit our website at

1171
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:31,760
www.skepticzone.tv for contacts an

1172
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:35,119
archive of all episodes since 2008

1173
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:37,760
and our online store please support the

1174
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:40,319
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1175
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:43,920
at skepticzone liking us on facebook and

1176
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,560
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1177
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:48,240
you can also show your support by

1178
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:51,119
subscribing via paypal for as little as

1179
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,200
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1180
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:55,119
the skeptic zone is an independent

1181
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,200
production the views and opinions

1182
00:47:01,349 --> 00:46:59,280
expressed on the skeptic zone are not